The Rambles of Neil Monnery

Another pointless voice in the vast ocean that is the interweb

26 comments on why the Lib Dems are in big big trouble

with 11 comments

I am going to post ad verbatim the 26 comments currently as of 12:16PM on the article in Comment is Free entitled Why I quit the Liberal Democrats over NHS reforms by Graham Winyard.

I think they are worth a read. What I get from them is that very few people are actually pro-liberal and more anti-Tory and anti-Labour. People want radical change and even though a coalition is pretty radical for Britain the people don’t see it as a coalition. They see it as a Conservative government and blame the Lib Dems for everything. Not sure that makes too much sense but still.

If the Lib Dems did kill the NHS Bill would that change the minds of the electorate or would they say the Lib Dems should have done it sooner therefore blame them for that anyway? I think that is a good question and I’d love to see the NHS Bill as it is written to die just so I could see what actually happened with the electorate. In a way I feel they have already made their minds up. The Lib Dems could cure child poverty in the UK and still not get any credit but hey ho.

Read on for 26 comments on why the Lib Dems aren’t exactly flavour of the month.

Comment 1:

The problem with the Liberal Democrats is that to attain their goal of Power they have become all things to all men (and women).

If the any Liberal Democrat MPs had any sense of Decency they would resign from this Perverted Coalition and bring the Government down so that the People could elect a more Sane replacement.

Comment 2:

You’ve just quit the Lib Dems?

What took you so long?

Comment 3:

Better late than never – let’s hope more in your old party are to follow.

Comment 4:

Fair play to you.
I do hope many others in the party will see sense.
But Ive a hunch they will do as they’re told by the toffs

Comment 5:

Mr Winyard

I wish there were more like you. The Liberal Democrats had the opportunity to really make a difference yet they chose to support the Tories come what may. The Liberal Democrats have made it possible for the Tories to start the destruction of the NHS. There are not polite words to describe my contempt for the leadership and the likes of Shirley Williams always trying to give the impression that she cares only to follow the Party line at the end.

Comment 6:

Well done, couldn’t have been any easy decision but at least you have principles & honor. I hope others will follow you & join to stop the destruction & privatization of NHS!.

Comment 7:

If they carry on like this then they will continue to haemorrhage support so that by the time of the next General Election they will have to change their name to the “Bugger All Democrats”.

Comment 8:

(Why I quite over NHS reforms…)

Because you acted with commendable altruism, in the interests of the patients to whom your professional life was dedicated in a solemn bond of care and protection. If politicians knew anything of the meaning of public service, this ghastly scenario would never have arisen.

Comment 9:

And I thought you were all in it together?

Too little, too late…

Comment 10:

You quit the Liberal Democrats as soon as you joined in coalition with the far right wing fanatics that the Tory party has become…

What is liberal about the reintroduction of slave labour?

What is democratic about imposing a tranche of extreme Neo-Liberal free market policies such as the privatisation of the NHS, the Police etc that wasn’t in any manifesto and wasn’t voted for by a majority of the electorate…

You and your ilk sold everything you professed to believe in for a sniff of power… and we won’t forget

Go back to your constituencies and prepare for oblivion.

Comment 11:

Its a shame that there are not a few more, that have the morals and strength of character to stand up for the electorate.

Comment 12:

Then fair play and all due respect to you for taking a position in line with your principles.

Would that all politicians had such a sense of firm morality.

Comment 13:

I don’t know why you waited until our betrayal was completed by almost all of our MPs voting for the Bill. I say “our” but I left in late 2010 , convinced that we had sold our soul and got nothing in return.

I am still sure that there is no point in arguing from the inside – those inside , our MPs and Peers will be well rewarded with plum jobs in the City , in privatised firms and in consultancies. They have supped with the devil and they quite like his food

Comment 14:

Individuals quit the libdems but unless they are MPs that doesn’t help. The facts in this article were obvious from the start. And libdem opponents of the disastrous H&SC Bill should be in their Conference making trouble.

Comment 15:

The LibDems have played the game of coalition politics so badly its laughable. They’ve managed to deflect significant blame from the Tories (particularly in the early days) and provided a handy focus for frustrated labourites and their displaced rage at the unforgivable failure of New Labour’s historic opportunity.

What is amazing is the apparent failure by the leadership to anticipate any of this…

Comment 16:

Agree with every word Gordi.

Well done Mr Winyard for having the strength of your convictions – alas, I don’t think your actions will prevent this atrocious bill becoming law since your leader was seen vigourously in favour of it at last weeks PMQ’s.

On the LD front however, will the resignations of Mr Winyard, James Graham & Baroness Tonge be sufficient for Mr Clegg to recognise that becoming a tory is gong to disastrous for his party at the next general election.

I voted LD in 2010 – I never ever will do so again.

Comment 17:

I have just seen this footage of Lansleys visit to the Royal Free Hospital yesterday.

Found in the comments below

(there’s a big day of protest this Wednesday 7 March, including a march from BMA headquarters at 5:15 and from ULU student union about 5, a human chain around St. Thomas’ Hospital at 2, and a mass lobby of MPs during the day, with a rally at 6 in Westminster Central Hall)

Spread the word.

For anyone wishing to show support but who cannot get to London, there is a live stream of the TUC rally on March 7th & you can sign up to it here.

We must take the fight to the govt because if we don’t, out NHS as we know it will be gone before we know it.

Comment 18:

The Liberal Democrat conference is regularily ignored by the Liberal Democrats and the Conservatives that currently control them. It demonstrates how powerless regular members are.

I’d recommend active people join the genuine members of the Liberal Democrats who have already have resigned, staying maintains the illusion assisted by the conference, that the party continues exists.

The only purpose of the remaining rump of the party is to keep the Conservatives in power.

Comment 19:

Lib Dems seem determined to make themselves unelectable. They will be blamed just as much as the Conservatives for the NHS reforms – probably even more as their ideology is contrary to a large section of the reforms they are allowing through.

Whenever the do something contrary to they politics or manifesto they blame the “Coalition agreement”. They had to introduce tuition fees because it “was in the Coalition Agreement”. This document is the excuse for everything they do that is unpopular. Then maybe they should read the “Coalition Agreement” section on the NHS – which says they will “Make the PCTs the patients champions” (nothing about privatisation, no closing down the PCTs, no massive top down re-organisation). So when it suits Cameron the Lib Dems just ignore the document they previously claimed to be the justification for everything.

If they allow the NHS reforms bill through it will undoubtedly be the end of the party as any sort of force in UK politics. I certainly wont be helping distributing leaflets, knocking on doors, etc. Their support will quickly evaporate.

OK, Clegg probably has a safe Tory seat organised somewhere but most of the others wont. They need to grow some backbone and pretty quickly or we revert to 2 party politics in the UK.

Comment 20:

Couldn’t sit on your integrity any longer?

Comment 21:

You can follow LibDem issues on LibDem Act and hear the views of other LiBDem activists, councillors and even occassional politicians.

Right now I’m torn between going for Labour and hoping their vast army of socialists and union folk can restrain Millipede and his cronies from pursuing further privatisation of the school and NHS systems, or following the Greens, who will inherit many LibDem votes in English national elections.

As usual the progressive vote will be split between a Labour leadership who looks increasingly to neoliberal beuacracy and worthy though poorly supported or funded minor parties.

Whatever the outcome, we can all rest assured the LibDems will end up with between 3-7 MPs in 2015, as shown in most major polls, a dead parliamentaty party.

Comment 22:

The fact that you stuck with such a shameful, traitorous party for so long says a lot. However, late is always better than never. Glad you’ve seen sense, lets hope more do the same.

Comment 23:

I spoke to one of the delegates at the weekends Scottish LibDem Conference last night.

She wasn’t happy with what she’d heard, and she isn’t the only one.

I’ve already commented on the conference on another thread, and she confirmed my impressions – the LibDems are finished in England, and the only way they will survive in Scotland is by breaking away from the London HQ and forming a separate, genuine LibDem/liberal/Social Democratic party.
The chat in the bars was that English-based LibDems should do the same, and before 2015.
The support is there. It just doesn’t have any representation in Government.

Clegg, party leader and Deputy PM, received a lukewarm welcome – empty seats, and muted applause. Many simply sat on their hands.
I think it would have been the same no matter where he was appearing.

Other speakers were well received :

Alex Cole-Hamilton, for example. He said that the decision to join with the Tories was :

“…. a colossal sell-out in our decision to enter government with the Conservatives. Power – at any cost ! Two years in we know something about power, but a lot more about cost.”
He went on to draw comparisons with those genuine liberals/LibDems of the past with today’s leadership.
It wasn’t nice.

Nigel Lindsay weighed in with comments about the abandonment of LibDem principles and policies, and how this has :

“…. caused bewilderment and dismay to many members…”, and to emphasise the point, he then listed all those abandoned policies and principles.
That wasn’t nice either.

Scotland has a long history of liberalism, especially in rural areas, and in 2010 the LibDems returned 11 MP’s to Parliament, and 9 were from rural constituencies.
A year later, the effects of the sell-out became obvious, and a mere 5 LibDem MSP’s were elected to Holyrood.
The LibDem vote had collapsed.

Those 11 MP’s will cease to exist in 2015, no matter what the result of the referendum is, but the feeling coming from the weekend conference is that some Scottish LibDem MP’s are already looking for safe Tory seats in England.

That’s how Clegg and his team are seen by the grassroots, and it will get worse.”

Comment 24:

I voted Lib Dem last time…. never again!

We’ve seen the Lib Dem poll number sink from low to mid 20s pre-election to single digits now. Not only did they totally trash the student supporter base they had so carefully and patiently worked to build up, they are now sitting next to a bunch of vipers who are selling off *all* the family silver without one word of consultation with the public.

I suspect any Lib Dem who defects now believes it’s over for their Political career anyway, so something must inspire them to do it and that’s not self interest. What have the ones that remain got to loose by clinging on? Sadly what we will not see nearly enough is of admissions similar to the writer above – it’s human to be misled, it’s human to make a mistake, but when the government proceeds to force on with Policies like the ones they have that are so fundamentally damaging to our country, we must assume those Lib Dem MPs have the same agenda as the Government – trash the country and flog the contracts quick. I wish any decent Lib Dems left out there finally twig the country needs saving from this administration and call time on it…. we will be 20 years recovering from this mess if they don’t!

Comment 25:

Strange. A mate of mine who has been a Liberal (and all its subsequent incarnations) since 1965 left the party the day Clegg simpered with Cameron in the garden.

Comment 26:

Yes, quitting the party seems to be an act of principle which others could follow if they listen to their consciences rather than the government propaganda.

It won’t change anything, though, will it?

Gordon Brown answered a legal challenge to the fact that New Labour put the party manifesto through the same shredder which ate Tony Blair’s expenses dockets with:

“The electorate cannot realistically expect a political party to honour its promises.”

The smoothly airbrushed face of Cameron looked down on the filthy little people from the billboards and they believed that the NHS would be safe in Neo Nasty hands.

This is part of the biggest heist in history.

This is the state abandoning the people and selling them down the river.

This is the insidious, ideological handing over of the welfare system – which everyone paid for over two generations – to the private sector.

This is UK Plc being absorbed into GlobalGov Corp.

This is part and parcel of the privatisation of the police and the enslavement of the people to £ multi-billion international corporations.

This is all possible because we live under an elective dictatorship which is forever owned by big business, whether the party in nominal power wears the rosette and bears the logo of Tory or LibDem or New Labour.

We have all seen the future – and it doesn’t work.

Which will not stop the government from ploughing ahead.

Because, to them, the will of the people and any and all professional groups you care to line up against them really don’t matter any more.

Try changing the government next time we all trundle out to vote and see what difference it makes.

As Peter Mandelson said, we are now living in a post-democratic age.

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Written by neilmonnery

March 6th, 2012 at 12:38 pm

Posted in Uncategorized

11 Responses to '26 comments on why the Lib Dems are in big big trouble'

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  1. Dear Neil,

    The thing about Comment is Free is that it’s not really representative of people generally. In fact, it’s not really representative of Grauniad readers let alone the rest of the population.

    They are the howling banshees of impotence and jealousy and, most importantly, they have no answers to the countries needs. They live in deep denial about what Labour did while it was in power – both to the economy and to Iraq – and refuse to take any responsibility for same. They grub about for any crumb of comfort that the Liberal Democrats are in trouble because they know, deep down, that Labour is unworthy to be in government for the foreseeable future.

    And not a one of them has the bottle to step up to the plate and try and make a difference in the way that *you* are willing to try and make a difference – by standing for election.

    So don’t let them grind you down, eh.

    Richard

    6 Mar 12 at 1:47 pm

  2. CIF these days feels like nothing but vindictive anti-Tory trolls.

    Sadly, at least in my part of the country, most Lib Dem votes were from anti-Tories rather than people actually supporting the Lib Dems, so while they stay away from the polls in protest we now have solidly Tory government at every single level as a result.

    Julia

    6 Mar 12 at 1:55 pm

  3. Richard, Julia – thank you both for your comments.

    I think Julia has summed up exactly how I feel. Most people (unless they have a genuine interest in politics) vote for us because of who we’re not and not because of who we are. This is the biggest problem I see. If we can get people to actually understand what we as a party and as people stand for and believe in then we’ll be ok.

    Sadly that is a tough road but a road we have to walk down. This coalition will stop people thinking we are just not the Tories or just not Labour. Some will not like this but if people take an interest then they might see what we see – that being a liberal actually stands for something – it doesn’t just stand for not being something.

    neilmonnery

    6 Mar 12 at 1:58 pm

  4. Joining the Tories in a coalition, no matter what we did, was always going to alienate socialists that lent us their protest vote, so there’s no surprise there. We need to build a more sustainable support base than that.

    Dan

    6 Mar 12 at 2:00 pm

  5. I think you are spot on Dan. As a party we have for too long been the protest vote. We haven’t been the vote of choice. The electorate need to be told what the Liberal way of thinking is and not what we aren’t.

    neilmonnery

    6 Mar 12 at 2:03 pm

  6. The Liberal Democrats ubder the leadership of Nick Clegg are really Conservatives with a lighter blue jumper. What the Liberal Democrats stood for in the General Election are not the party sleeping with Cameron and Osbourne.

    efgd

    6 Mar 12 at 3:36 pm

  7. […] 26 comments on why the Lib Dems are in big big trouble by Neil Monnery on the Rambles of Neil Monnery. Neil posts the first 26 comments on the article in […]

  8. Comment 17 mentions the mass demo/rally for the NHS. According to the organisers themselves it attracted 2,500 people.
    Like the wave of occupations, the mass strikes, the direct action & occupy it was another flop.
    Cif types live in a bubble, they mostly dont even vote.

    Look at people who did vote over the 3 months up to the end of february –
    con 36%
    lab 22%
    libdem 28%
    Ignore the echo chambers of the polls & the media, out in the real world we are not dying.

    paul barker

    11 Mar 12 at 8:02 pm

  9. I’d actually amend the description of the CiF massive by saying they’re SWP-leaning trolls that believe that they can trigger the Inevitable Revolution by voting Labour. Because that’s what they are: the type of person whose be-all and end-all solution to the BNP is “err, No Platform!”. To call them socialists would insult the people who actually read Marx and Engels and can actually attempt to back up their politics beyond one-liners.

    Will

    12 Mar 12 at 9:04 am

  10. […] see why he left here)  or Graham Winyard as reported in The Guardian (and see the excitement from Guardian readers about this here). When I checked with the party last the stats were that we are down 17% of members from May 2010 […]

  11. […] to vent their spleen with do so more vigorously. I wrote a blog a couple of weeks back entitled 26 comments on why the Lib Dems are in big big trouble about comments on a Comment is Free blog post about how someone had chosen to leave the Lib Dems. […]

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